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The Well-Grounded Yuppie


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Tuesday, October 10, 2006

Importance of Sticking to Plans

Last week, I made dinner plans with someone for Sunday night at 7:30 at Olive Garden in Tyson's Corner. Around 6PM on Sunday, she called me and said something about her not having her car at the time and asked me if we could move it to around 8:30 or so. I dislike people who do that, almost like a girl "playing a game" and "testing how much crap I will take". I told her "that's a little too late for me, we can reschedule if you'd like", and left it at that (which we actually did later on). She politely apologized for it.

I just finished talking with my best female friend on the phone and she thinks I'm wrong on this one. Her exact words are "It's just like you, Paul. You think everyone out there is trying to take advantage of you, and you find something wrong with every person and quickly diss them".

Open question to all: Am I wrong on this one? Should I just put up with more (than currently level of) crap women give me and accept it in order to "have a healthy relationship", whether if it's friendship or anything else? Or should I keep my current "Take no crap from no-one early, or she will always think I'm a pushover and not respect me" attitude?

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27 Comments:

Blogger Andrew said...

I think you should take the level of crap that you want to take. If you think the person is worth taking a little more crap from, do it. If not, don't. Taking extra crap from someone you don't think deserves it will just result in a bitter relationship, not a healthy one.

OK, now that I've rambled on like Dr. Phil I will say that your "crap taking threshold" seems a little low.

10/10/2006 9:10 AM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Hmmmm.......well said, Andrew. What if it's "early on" and you don't know how much crap she's worth taking? Do you dismiss them and assume "She's giving me crap now, she'll probably give me crap in the future", or do you take the crap hoping "she'll be worth taking crap for"?

10/10/2006 10:06 AM  
Blogger Q. said...

Wait, are we using "I went shopping (or something) with friends and don't have my car, so I can't get to the classy, classy Olive Garden by 7:30, can we please bump it to a more European dining hour?" as an example of "taking crap"?

Because let me tell you, moving dinner and being asked for your last name and getting chewed out because you don't have a specific "plan" for a date are NOTHING. Crap is going out on a date and having the girl order an appetizer, a salad, an expensive entree, and a dessert -- and then slipping the waiter her number. Taking crap is a girl making plans and then COMPLETELY DISAPPEARING AND NOT CALLING YOU FOR DAYS TO EXPLAIN. Taking crap is "meeting for drinks" and having the girl flirt with other dudes in front of you. These are not things that have happened to me, because I am a stud, loved by all ladies. But they have happend to good friends of mine.

Your crap-taking-threshold doesn't even APPROACH anything resembling a threshold. You need to man-up and be assertive in these situations, without going over the edge.

You have to pay the price of admission if you want a healthy relationship -- and chances are, that price is going to be a hint of what you call "drama."

NB: If there ain't no drama, there ain't no passion -- and passion, Paul, is what makes for good sexin. Think on it.

Oh, and I L-O-V-E these relationship posts.

Keep up the good work.

10/10/2006 11:08 AM  
Blogger M. said...

Wait...i'm confused. Is this a joke? Does "rescheduling" qualify as "crap"? (Kind of like how "chemical fires" "totally suck"?) Wow.


WOW.

10/10/2006 11:58 AM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

M: "Rescheduling" isn't the crap I was talking about. The "Crap" I was talking about is when a girl thoughtlessly makes plans that coincides with or goings into existing plans between she and myself, calls me up an hour and a half before that, and asks "can we do it at 8:30 instead of 7:30 like we scheduled". At the time, I decided to not "take any crap" and basically said "no, we can't do it at 8:30" and we've rescheduled our dinner"

Q: If a guy didn't have fun on the date, I don't think he's obligated to pay for the girl at the end of the date. I personally think it's perfectly okay to have the restaurant "split the check" or "separate checks please", especially if you don't plan on seeing her again.

And as for "meeting for drinks" and she starts flirting with another guy, it's perfectly okay to have your one drink, pay for it (only your one drink), and leave and say "It was great seeing you again".

It sucks if a girl makes plans with a guy and dissappears inconsiderately, that's when the guy should just totally forget the girl, take the "there're millions of them out there, why stress over this specific inconsiderate one" approach.

I don't think I should "man up" and "be assertive" in these situations, because one thing I really can't stand is "rudeness" in the name of "honesty", and I wouldn't do it to other people. When I said something like "it's a little late for me, we can reschedule or something", it's the same as "No, I will not change my plans due to your thoughtlessness". She gets the point, except I didn't come across like an @$$hole.

I think there can be passion without drama, two people can totally "click" and not give each other crap. I have the same type of relationship with all (which is very few) of my female friends. Is it too much to expect the same kind of relationship, except with a romantic interest involved?

10/10/2006 12:53 PM  
Blogger Q. said...

Dude, you're making this so much harder on yourself than you have to. A few things to keep in mind:

1. Girls are dumb. They forget things, they act without thinking, they speak without thinking. More often than not, this will eventually effect your life in some way. If you'd made plans with your wife and her shopping trip with her girl friends ran late, would you still harbor the same resentment? Again, girls are dumb -- you need to cut them some slack... or you'll never get in their slacks.

2. My examples were hypothetical. They illustrate how easy you have it -- you seem to be meeting rather pleasant, polite young women who, unbeknownst to them, break one of your cardinal rules. These hypotheticals were meant to show *real* drama. You seem to be creating in where none exists.

3. We're here to help you. We all love you and you should consider yourself to be tightly nestled in the trust tree. I'm spending so much time commenting on this post because I genuinely feel like you need some guidance.

Alls I'm sayin' is: "sticking to plans" is important for generals in the field and pilots of airliners -- not when you're moving a dinner date at Olive Garden back an hour.

Hugs.

10/10/2006 2:00 PM  
Blogger C. said...

Dude, she asked to push it back an hour. How big of an inconvenience is 1 measly hour.

So you’re able to sit at your desk and Google search chemical fires or optometrists or something...big deal.

And I must agree with Q. that if you're looking for date #2, the OG is not the way to go.

10/10/2006 2:03 PM  
Blogger M. said...

An hour and a half? Really, Paul? And what were you doing, exactly? Googling? Was that that why you couldn't push it back? Give me a break.
Q--i thought we talked about the trust tree.

10/10/2006 2:14 PM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Q:
1. Obviously, I'd be more forgiving to my wife, people that are more "important" to me get more slack.
2. I'm glad those are hypothetical situations, I wouldn't translate that to "drama" in life, just one bad date that you just walk out of and get over.
3. Appreciate the help. I'm honored to be a part of your "trust tree"? I guess?

C & M: It's not about "what I'm doing instead", it's about "inconsideration and what I'd put up with in the future if I put up with this". I don't think I should give ground to something inconsiderate just because "I have nothing better to do".

This isn't a "first date", she's been an aquintence here and there, that's why I "rescheduled" the dinner appointment, instead of just totally dissing her.

My first dates are usually something extremely simple, something like coffee, or maybe a drink. This way it weeds out gold diggers and girls who say "yes" to dates just to get fed.

To All: Do you think women will put up with me calling an hour and a half before the scheduled time to say "can we move it to one hour later". If they will, then maybe Q, C, M, and my female best friend have a point and I should've taken her on up it. If you guys don't think women will put up with a guy doing it, then why, as a guy, should I put up with women doing it?

10/10/2006 3:04 PM  
Blogger Q. said...

It's not about women or men, man -- it's people. Soylent Green is PEOPLE. And people need to change plans sometimes. You need to be flexible. If she'd called 10 minutes before and you already had yourself a table at the Olive Garden and were munchin' on unlimited breadsticks and salad, waiting... then we could talk.

Oh, and consensus in the trust tree is that she called to change plans to see if maybe you'd changed your mind about the restaurant choice... Why couldn't you take this girl to Dino or something?

10/10/2006 3:20 PM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Q: Fair enough, if it's "all people" that deserver some slack, I can respect that. I just don't want to play into the social cliche of "women have more power in a relationship than men, so they can give more crap and get more slack".

And OG was where we had our first dinner a long time ago (her idea). When I set the place, I was just being lazy and didn't want to think up something "creative" and went with something "safe". And I'm not all about "buying a girl's affection". That would imply that "my company isn't good enough, it would take something extra such as a good meal for you to spend time with me".

Besides, she and I have never been "romantic" about things, and I don't think we "click" as anything more than friends anyway.

10/10/2006 11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love the way you're willing to actually stand up to these women rather than accepting the fact that you should be praying on your hands and knees that they agreed to be seen in public with you. It's so quaint.

However, the better part of this story is that you decided to impress a woman by taking her to the Olive Garden. Were you under the impression that your winning personality would make up for the cheap food? Let me take an opportunity to clue you in on reality...it won't.

Please take some advice. If a woman is willing to be seen in public with you without doing one of the following, take any crap she's willing to throw at you:

1. Stab you repeatedly about the head and genitals
2. Knee you in the crotch
3. Throw up on you
4. File a restraining order
5. Steal your wallet

10/12/2006 3:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's a tricky thing... deciding how much crap you would put up with. but you gotta train people and you gotta train them early on what your limits are.

10/12/2006 3:41 PM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Anonymous: You seem to not have too high of an opinion of me, why is that? I've definately left some bad impressions on many people in the past, you might just be one of those people. It happens, I choose to cut my losses and grow up. The fact that you post negative comments as Anonymous shows that you didn't.

As far as "impressing a women by taking her to Olive Garden" goes, I'm not trying to impress her, we made plans to "get together over the weekend" and Olive Garden just seemed like a convenient place to go.

nanadc: thanks, I knew somebody would understand, instead of the popular opinion of "you should just do dinner one hour early cuz you did't have anything better to do anyway". :)

10/12/2006 5:23 PM  
Blogger Andrew said...

Anonymous,
On your list, items 1,2,3,4 may be valid, but good luck finding any woman, anywhere that won't steal your wallet ... or at least everything in it.

Also, judging by your personality, you seem very immature. I'm surprised that someone of your level of sophistication and general deceny wouldn't be exstatic to find someone willing to take them to the Olive Garden.

10/13/2006 10:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKZS4Jn6gRM

10/13/2006 11:02 AM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Olive Garden Commerical
Niiiiiice.

If Olive Garden served the same food, but isn't a chain, I wonder if it would take the heat it does now.

To me, the restaurant is a "safe" one. Nobody's really crazy about it, but nobody really hates it either.

10/13/2006 12:14 PM  
Blogger david grant said...

Hey Paul,

Been a little while since I have posted here (I guess the action that your relationship posts generate is enough to bring me back) I also decided that it is best that I don't stay anon. as you may confuse me with other anon. people, and that may be sort of suck.

Okay, with all that being said, you are fantastically wrong in the way you handled this situation. All this talk about taking 'crap' is completely unbelievable. Mate, as I understand, this is the first date... I understand that it may be a little uncool to wait a little longer, but you can't be so unbending. Unless you are trying to determing if a girl is marriage material from the second you meet her, then what is wrong with casual dating/making a close friend/a new social contact?

People are imperfect. If that imperfection happens to crop up sooner in a relationship rather than later, it is just what happened. You can bet that even if you have a perfect first set of dates, something will happen at some point, and does that mean that you call it a day then?

If you give somebody some slack at the start of a relationship they may actually become a fantastic girlfriend. If you stamp out all potentials right away, they don't have a chance of becoming anybody.

Take care, mate.

10/14/2006 8:32 AM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Thanks for the insight, Dave. And you don't have to "log in" to leave your name, there's an option for "Other" where you can just write down your name.

And as far as "Marriage material", I think not putting up with random BS is the way to NOT have marriage material, instead of the thoughts of "I should put up with something from a girl, she might be marriage material".

Oh yeah, it wasn't the first date, it was an aquentence I've know for a little while, we've went out maybe 3 or 4 times. I didn't totally "dismiss her" or anything, I simply rescheduled. I'm also not looking for "the perfect date", I'm simply sending a message "inconsideration will not be tolerated, I'm not a pushover." But at the same time, I wasn't rude or anything, I simply said "It's a little late for me, we can reschedule if you'd like".

10/14/2006 1:23 PM  
Blogger Christopher H. said...

I agree with Andrew, your crap taking threshold does seem really low. Mind you, i probably take far more crap from females than I should. That said, I think relationships are about give and take. Sometimes we have to make sacrifices to have a better relationship.

10/17/2006 9:36 AM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

I'm drawing a slight blank on who this Christopher H is. Any hints please?

10/17/2006 9:54 AM  
Blogger Brent Brandow said...

You need to be getting these ladies drunker...i think that will solve a lot of the problems.

10/18/2006 2:48 PM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Yeah, Brent, had that experience. Me and this girl intoxicated, enjoyed each other's company, "clicked" pretty well, well enough to make plans for the next day.

Then next day, nobody drank, totally didn't click at all.

Alcohol is only a short term solution, unless I plan on being drunk all the time.

10/18/2006 4:40 PM  
Blogger david grant said...

Is it just me, or does the word 'clicked' just seem so annoying. It sounds like something that you would hear on sex in the city or something...

10/19/2006 8:43 AM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

But it exactly describes it, Dave. I can elaborate and use phrases like "we really enjoyed each others' company and thought each other were funny and would love to see each other again", but "click" somewhat sums it up.

10/19/2006 9:53 AM  
Blogger Brent Brandow said...

"Alcohol is only a short term solution, unless I plan on being drunk all the time."

I agree. You should be drunk all the time.

10/19/2006 2:15 PM  
Blogger Paul Zhao said...

Nah, bad for my health and my career. Plus, I DO like to drive to places without taking the metro (subway) around.

10/19/2006 5:58 PM  

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